SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
President Trump won another legislative victory this week. Republicans in Congress approved legislation to take back $9 billion from federal spending that had been appropriated for public broadcasting and foreign aid. NPR senior contributor Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: Is this rescissions package that just passed going to make it harder for Republicans and Democrats to work together to pass budget and spending bills if Republicans can then just unilaterally rescind money from the priorities of Democrats?
ELVING: First, it surely weakens the congressional constitutional power of the purse. And yes, as you suggest, it's going to weaken one of the traditions by which the Senate, in particular, has functioned over the years. And it's not just for Democrats. It's for whichever party is in the minority. The appropriations process has long been a source of power and relevance for whichever party is in the minority, and it was a chance for them to make a difference in the distribution of federal dollars. It's been said, in fact, that Congress had three parties - Republicans, Democrats and appropriators because the appropriators in both parties could negotiate and compromise and piece together spending bills that could pass. And that was a culture in which relationships between individual senators mattered as much as party. But it all breaks down if those negotiations are subject to the will and the whim of the White House, and if the president can come in with a rescissions bill and, well, in a tie vote, wipe out the product of the process.
SIMON: President continued his attacks on the Fed chair Jerome Powell this week, talked about firing him with a group of House Republicans. What happens if he does that?
ELVING: Trump knows that every time he seems ready to fire Powell, the stock market takes a sudden downturn until he backs off and the market bounces back. Now we saw that play out again this week after Trump met with those hardcore House members you mentioned, who urged Powell's ouster. So right away, Trump said, no, no, he wouldn't fire Powell, quote, "unless there's fraud." So Trump can go on hoping that just hammering away at the chairman in highly personal terms will be enough, and that Jerome Powell will tire of the personal abuse and just resign. In any event, Trump gets to appoint a successor when Powell's term is up next year.
SIMON: Inflation ticked up this week, according to the figures, reflecting early effect of the tariffs. And we have seen a few more trade deals and tariff announcements. What's the latest?
ELVING: You know, if that's the right way to ask the question because it's always the latest that matters when it comes to tariffs, and there'll be a new latest soon. We've gotten to the point where even the stock market pretty much shrugs and moves on. When Trump talks tariffs, they're waiting to see what the final tariffs will be. Last night, Trump was asked when there would be new deals, and he said, whenever the White House sends a letter, that's a new deal unless the affected countries then come back and want to negotiate. Then there might be another deal. So it's all a conversation. The threats that Trump calls deals are meant to get the talks moving in his direction, and at some point, we'll say - see where we are. And if these tariffs ever do take full effect, that's when we're likely to see the full impact of inflation.
SIMON: The President promised more weapons to Ukraine this week and threatened Russia with 100% tariffs. Is this a real shift in what he had annunciated as U.S. policy or a negotiating tactic?
ELVING: Right now, it looks like a real change, and if it brings real negotiations, then it's a successful negotiating tactic as well. Trump wants peace. That's the prize for him, and he seems to care more about peace than about who wins or comes out ahead. Early in the year, he leaned on the Ukrainians to make a deal. Lately, he's been trying to lure Putin to the table. Trump says they've had great conversations, but the Russian bombs and drones keep flying, and worse than ever. And when that's been pointed out to the president, it seems to have turned him the other way, at least for the moment. So he's back to sending weapons to Ukraine and, importantly, expediting their delivery through our European allies. So we'll see if that's enough for Ukraine to tough it out and to force Putin to talk.
SIMON: NPR's Ron Elving, thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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